How could the Fort Hood shooter be opposed to war, but not to killing? Perhaps in the same way other people are opposed to killing, but not to war. 
I haven't been following the Fort Hood story very closely, to be honest, so I don't have much commentary to offer on the situation in general. However, this sort of puzzlement at an antiwar murderer is a reaction I've noticed, nicely summarized by the comic at right.
So -- while not diminishing the tragedy at Ft. Hood, for it certainly is a tragedy -- I'd like to take this opportunity to address this most interesting reaction (from Townhall, no less, which is anything but antiwar) to this killing spree. It's a recognition of the hypocrisy of murdering while not supporting war. But where is the introspection? Where is the realization that supporting aggressive war while opposing murder is just as hypocritical?
Nowhere to be found, it seems. So to make up for it, I've collected (below the jump) a few quotes on the difficulty of taking either oxymoronic position.
- If the unborn children happen to be living in the wombs of women on whom U.S. bombs and rockets rain down in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, however, all Republican concerns for the unborn evaporate completely, as do the Democrats’ concerns for the poor children living in the selfsame bombarded villages. -- Robert Higgs
- It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder. -- Albert Einstein
- What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood. -- Aldous Huxley
- War is organized murder and torture against our brothers. -- Alfred Adler
- Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. -- George Orwell
- Dress it as we may...huzza it, and sing swaggering songs about it, what is war, nine times out of ten, but murder in uniform? -- Douglas Jerrold
- Vietnam should remind conservatives that whenever you put your faith in big government for any reason, sooner or later you wind up an apologist for mass murder. -- Karl Hess
- Man has no right to kill his brother. It is no excuse that he does so in uniform: he only adds the infamy of servitude to the crime of murder. -- Percy Bysshe Shelley
- A man who kills on his own is a murderer. A man who kills at his government's request is a national hero. -- Ramman Kenoun
- I learned nothing from war. War is not an activity for human beings; war is for criminals—rape, robbery and murder. -- Roman Podabedov
- If you support any offensive war, consider yourself just as culpable of murder as the most insane serial killer. -- Sarah Bellum
- If you kill one person you are a murderer. If you kill ten people you are a monster. If you kill ten thousand you are a national hero. -- Vassilis Epaminondou
- All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. -- Voltaire
So yes, let's be outraged and saddened at mass shootings like Ft. Hood. But let's also be outraged and saddened at the mass shooting which is happening all day, every day, paid for by our tax dollars and sanctioned by our government, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Great post!
Bonnie Kristian-- Peacemonger and enemy of the state...
Great post.
What asinine moral relativism. You are an ignorant tool. Write less, read more.
Even if you believe the lie that removing Saddam Hussein was an "aggressive" war, your moral relativism between murder and terrorism on the one hand and war on the other is ignorant, offensive, deeply childish and an embarrassment to you, your school, your entire education, and your family, the nation and humanity in general. You should be deeply ashamed of yourself for being so monumentally simple-minded, immoral and ignorant.
And I am sorry, the Iraq war was not a war of agression by any definition of the word. We have been in a constant state of war with Iraq since Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwaiit. We have had troops in his country, and had been patrolling his skies since then. He shot at our troops and airmen almost daily, any one instance of which is an act of war in and of itself. We only allowed Hussein to remain in power PROVIDED that he promised to abide by a strict set of obligations and abide by all the United Nation Security Council resolutions. He violated every single agreement he ever made. Any one of which was justification for removing him from power. All of which made removing him from power a moral obligation to anyone who understands morality, who understands the civilization destroying possibilities of things like Small Pox, and understands that it is not the obligation of the world to prove that a criminal dictator doesnt have WMD, but it is his obligation to prove that he doesnt.
You should demand a refund on your education, apologize to your parents and go join a convent for equating removing a criminal tyrant and threat to world peace like Saddam Hussein with shooting unarmed civilians.
But you cant bother your empty little head to read up on the attack at Fort Hood!
What an ignorant, ignorant child!
Matt does an excellent job of making my case for me (thanks, Matt!), so I'll just make a few small notes.
...in other words, we've been infringing on his sovereignty for years, involving ourselves abroad as our founding fathers never intended, and we wonder why they're upset? Ever heard of blowback? It's a CIA term, by the way, not a concept made up by antiwar activists.
We "allowed" Hussein to remain in power? Why is what happens in Iraq our business? With a ballooning national debt, ever-growing government, and a constant creep against our liberties (and all of that happened during Bush as well as Obama), what happens thousands of miles away in a country that is not ours and which wants nothing to do with us should hardly be our priority. Also, how can we claim sovereignty against the unwanted encraochments of the international community if we won't allow it to anyone else? Who made the U.S. government God?
Right, but after he said that he didn't, we went in to prove it anyway? So you're saying we should have done exactly what you said the world shouldn't do? This is a logical fallacy on two points: first, you can't prove a negative. Second, the burden of proof is on the accuser. This is shifting the blame, and therefore inherently fallacious.
And while we're on the subject of logical fallacies, nice ad hominem attacks. I see you're big on that moral high ground.
You're accusing her of Moral relativism?
Dude, you're the one who is saying it's OK to go kill (murder) Iraqi soldiers who never lifted a finger against the US, as well as bomb innocents in any of these countries, for the state and some weird "ultimate agenda." No one is saying Saddam was a good guy, but why is it justifiable to massacre innocent people to "get him?"
Imagine if the state's "collateral damage," were your family? How can you quantify the value of a human life and what that life will contribute to the world? Stop making excuses and see the state for what it is-- it's a lot easier than hating people who dare to speak to the truth.
And by the way, who is it that you so naively accuse of not being opposed to war? One think you should get through your emptly little head as quick as you can is that NO ONE is as opposed to war as those who have to fight it. Yet they volunteer because they are not silly little ignorant girls such as yourself, and they know that sometimes it is necessary.
Grow up child!
Dude you're the one who is saying it's OK to go kill (murder) Iraqi soldiers who never lifted a finger against the US
You are another one who should immediately demand a refund and apologize to your parents, your community and your country for wasting precious education resources. Iraqi soldiers fired on American and British troops and airmen virtually every day for 17 years. And prior to that they STARTED A WAR that never ended, because we allowed their leader to stay in power provided he would follow a strict set of conditions. All of which he violated.
Never lifted a finger against the US???
You are an embarrassment to the very idea of education!
So:
1) Because of mutual aggression by the US and Iraqi government against innocents in the Bush the First (as well as the Clinton) era.
2) In 2003, all Iraqi soldiers, (some of whom were toddlers and teenagers in the first war, btw) "insurgents," and civilians can be bombed and shot in a war of aggression?
ummm, righttttt...
"He violated every single agreement he ever made."
When has the United States ever followed any agreement it has made?
"All of which made removing him from power a moral obligation to anyone who understands morality, who understands the civilization destroying possibilities of things like Small Pox, and understands that it is not the obligation of the world to prove that a criminal dictator doesnt have WMD, but it is his obligation to prove that he doesnt."
Does anybody else remember those pesky economic sanctions we put on Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraq children?
I have a question for the writer of this post. I want you to tell me how you would solve this problem.
In your school there is a bully, he has made it very clear that he does not care what you think or how you feel about what he does. He is going to do what he wants no matter what you say or how you feel about it. He has no good reason for doing what he is doing except that it gets him what he wants, and he knows that if he obeys the rules he will not get what he wants. One day he decides to beat up on a weaker schoolmate and take all of their money. Not only that he lets it be known that he is going to keep taking the money from that schoolmate, because he wants it and to him that is all that matters.
You have even tried to talk to him in the past and he just tells you to go away and leave him alone. He has even been heard to say that the he knows that he can get away with this because he knows that no one will stand up to him, he says that you are just all talk and no action. You have tried in and out school suspension, he ignores it and continues his reign of terror. You called the police, but when you told them they could not use FORCE to arrest him and he resisted, they said sorry there was nothing they could do.
What do you do? How do you keep this bully from terrorizing the school? So what is your answer? How do you deal with someone that believes and experience has taught them that FORCE is the best way to get what they want?
well let's say the "bully," and 3 innocents are in an isolated room and there are 500 kids in the school. Do you throw a grenade in the room and to heck with the "collateral damage?"
Libertarians aren't pacifists... We're opposed to harming innocent people. We acknowledge that you can't quantify the value of one life and what he or she will contribute to the world, and thus, there are no "trade-offs" when innocent life is involved. (one person may well do more good for the world than 20 others)
These two words cannot go together at all. When you have war you are going to have killings. There is no way around this at all.
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