Think of it this way: as classical liberals, we understand that a bureaucrat in Washington could not possibly have enough information to correctly regulate the price or quantity of a good or service. This applies to labor markets, and immigration is essentially a function thereof. There's no way Washington or the state of Arizona can know how much immigration we really need.
Only the free and voluntary interaction of people and enterprises in an unfettered market will result in the "right" amount of immigration to our country (that is to say- the amount which will result in maximum productivity and value for all parties involved). I actually believe however, that we are seeing more immigration than a free market would produce because of other policies that create market distortions.
So to completely leave the matter up to the marketplace, we need to grant amnesty, end quotas and limits on immigration, and end the nightmarish bureaucratic processes for getting into the country. But we also need to stop allowing non-citizens to take advantage of Federal and state entitlements (frankly we need to stop citizens from doing so too), and we need to stop fixing the price of labor so artificially high, which encourages businesses to hire market-priced labor on the black market (i.e. "illegal" immigrants who are willing to violate the government-enforced cartel on labor)- e.g. end minimum wage and legally-required employment benefits.
Why amnesty? Because it's a dumb law. Locking people up for no other reason than they don't want to be documented isn't very enlightened, moral, or nice. When the government wants to start documenting you and making you walk around with a National ID (which they'll do on the basis of controlling illegal immigration), how will you feel about it then? Anytime the government starts saying: "Papers please," it makes me nervous as a libertarian and a casual observer of history- particularly recent German history if you know what I mean. If we pass a bill in 2013 to repeal the individual healthcare mandate- you would support amnesty for people who didn't comply right? Because it was a stupid law, right? I think immigration is the same way.
As for non-economic effects of immigration, which people always love to bring up- so what? Okay, they're changing our culture and speaking a different language. No one is forcing you to speak any language that you don't want to speak or practice a culture you don't want to practice. If you are truly loathe to deal with people who speak broken English, then don't bother with them or patronize businesses that employ them. Just don't use the force of government to punish private businesses who disagree with your choice and want to make their own decision. And just what are Latin immigrants doing that is so horrible for our culture? Is it because most of them have a strong work ethic, solid family values, and deep respect for God and religion? What conservative wouldn't like to see more of such people in our country?
Finally, our public safety should always be a paramount concern. While we should not punish all immigrants (by restricting their access to our country) just because some commit crimes (after all, some American citizens commit crimes too), we should deport the ones that commit violent crimes- including DUIs. Instead, our politically-correct sycophancy often allows dangerous people to remain in our country and commit more violent crimes.
In the end, the free flow of people, goods, ideas, and capital across borders should be every libertarian's dream. It increases our productive possibilities and makes our nation strong. People come to America because America is great. The best, brightest, most productive people of other countries with less freedom than ours will not suffer their governments to punish them for their excellence, so they come here. Why wouldn't we want them here? Immigration is the sincerest form of flattery.
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It is not the best and the brightest coming here illegally. The best and the brightest, the ones we want to come here, are the ones who follow our laws and enter legally. We do not want the one whose first action upon entering the country is to break the law.
Amnesty would reward illegals for ignoring our nations laws and punish those legally pursuing citizenship.
One important thing to remember is not to equate amnesty with citizenship. I'm not saying let's give citizenship to all these people. I'm actually not saying anything at all about the matter of citizenship. I'm just writing about people being free to live and work here (which you don't and shouldn't need citizenship to do).
I have been racking my brain the past week trying to understand the debate. Finally about a day or so ago I came to the conclusion just like the final paragraph of your article. The problem is we have limits on immigration at a time when people still WANT to come here. Its similar to parts of our history when large numbers of Germans, Irish, etc came. Then the italians came. Then the asians. Now latinos are pushing north into our country at a chance of freedom. My german ancestry dates back to the late 1700s when they immigrated here. I think its amazing they chose to come here.
What did the huge immigrant pushes have? They had Ellis Island. They had the Statue of Liberty. I think we need to have a Modern Day Ellis Island in the South. Open our arms, but give them a chance to become legal immigrants. Nothing in life worth going for is ever gotten for FREE.
So my proposal would be to either convert existing buildings or ask for the people of this country to fund it privately as donations into a modern day Ellis Island for the immigrants in the south. Some place where they feel is safe. Some place where they can go where they dont have to cross the fence in the desert. Make them earn their citizenry just like everybody else did. Im willing to look the other way that they crossed illegally if they come to "register" within 6 months of it opening. After 6 months then laws should be in place to deal with people like that. Open our arms just like the Statue of Liberty. Dont stand with our arms crossed and fists clenched.
Something like this...
The views expressed in this publication do not necessarily reflect the views of the Young Americans for Liberty or Dr. Ron Paul...
This one opinion, as thoughfull as it might be, is extreamley dabatable.
The rule of law is just that. Want to change the law? Fine. But you dont get to just ignore it. We already have WAY to much of that right now.
I agree. We have a legal way to enter the country, and an illegal way. Those who enter illegally should suffer the consequences of what the law currently states. We can't just simply throw the current law out the window, what kind of example would that set? If you want to pursue reform, go ahead, but you need to deal with the people that broke the law to begin with.
http://www.yaliberty.org/yal-blog-content-policy
Supposing we pass a bill to repeal the individual health insurance mandate. Would you then oppose amnesty as a provision of that bill, for the people who chose not to comply with it in the meantime? And would you say that they should be forced to pay the penalty in the health care bill for their non-compliance while it was law? If not, then I'd say you're being inconsistent. If so, then I'd say, "Dude! Seriously?"
The individual mandate is a completely different issue since it itself is unconstitutional to begin with. There actually is a constitutional basis for immigration laws. So, there is clearly a difference between not obeying something that is unconstitutional and something that is constitutional--in one case, the government overstepped its boundaries (and the person rightly resisted)--in the other case, the government arguably didn't overstep its boundaries (and the person wrongfully resisted).
So we agree there is a higher law than those passed by Congress (that law being the Constitution). Would you disaree that there is a higher law than the Constitution?
Of course I do--natural law. But, if we respect the Constitution and the laws that are constitutional so much, why are we willing to disregard them and the penalties associated to accomplish something? That just means we have no respect for laws that are actually constitutional, and the Constitution itself.
When did illegal aliens become a commodity? This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts on this debate I've seen to date. I hope you didn't spend a lot of time on this post.
Of course people aren't goods, but their labor is, and their movement helps facilitate efficiency in labor markets. I'm not suggesting exploitation or slavery, Frank. I'm actually just suggesting free and voluntary interaction among people. If you're insinuating that I've somehow depersonalized or commoditized immigrants with this post, I'd be curious to poll a hundred latino immigrants to see if they liked what I wrote here or not. My bet is they would.
I'm not commoditizing them- I'm advocating for them and for what they want... to live and work here peacefully and unharrassed. It is people who would prefer to deport or imprison them that depersonalize them by breaking up their families and seeing them as a problem instead of a person with natural rights. It is politicians who oppose what I've written here today who exploit immigrants for political capital. I just don't see how you can seriously rebut that I'm treating them as a commodity when I'm the one who is agreeing with them, not the typical opponents of amnesty.
Excellent Job Wes!
However, I think you could have touched more on how it would be much easier if we didn't have an income tax (just taxes on consumption - flat tax) and that would provide even more people w/ equality. No one could argue that one was not paying his or her fair share, and aliens would be paying just as much tax as others. Much less paper work too as I'm sure we'll all see when "An Inconvenient Tax" movie comes out. This would also help people realize how much things really cost (oh if we eliminated legal tender as well) and people would have much better estimates about how much it costs to have children and whatnot (as I'm sure many of us college students are seeing that - as the dollar has devalued - our standard of living is dropping compared to our parents generation - had they known this - they may have done what many of us are already considering - maybe I can't afford children this generation).
Remember what Mr. Lew Rockwell says "It is not conservative vs. liberal, it is you vs. the state. This is not about arguing w/ the legality of this and that. We need a bit of civil disobedience now and again (consider slavery, drug laws, the healthcare bill). This 'you' that Rockwell speaks of also revolves in the 'immigrant tradition.' Support the people - not the state - and realize that the people act from incentives - and there are unintended consequences for every law passed - and the legal status of humans is one of them from the unfair tax, poor dollar, poor protectionist ideas.
There is much more we could say about the people and the countries they come from - and how come none of them will go back and try to fix their own countries problems - and I think that holds a little merit. It would be nice if we could educate people faster and better - that might solve many of those country's problems.
"There is much more we could say about the people and the countries they come from - and how come none of them will go back and try to fix their own countries problems - and I think that holds a little merit. It would be nice if we could educate people faster and better - that might solve many of those country's problems. " -Andrew F
Agreed. Perhaps we as a people should invest the time and money ourselves to help educate the people come here. Granted some of us got biased educations in the public system, good and bad. But perhaps to ease the burden on the state we could help teach about our country and help teach english so they can assimilate into society easier. That goes for ALL immigrants who come here Legally.
If you came here illegally, we will be waiting for you to register and all that to become legal. So we can help you become American.
Alex
Thanks for fixing my spelling mistake "country's"
As always though, well armed men are dramatically less likely to live under tyrants or be enslaved. I have been studying the Irish Revolution and the Cuban Revolution this past year - and I'm very interested in Algeria, South Africa and others I know I'm missing. It is very hard to (as of yet) for me to find when a Revolution is justified through armed force (I am not arguing for armed revolution here - purely waxing on the philosophical merit of armed revolution). What is the tipping point? Obviously, the countries I mentioned were colonized and under dictators - but at what point could one say - that is not legit - here is a stockpile of guns - and a boat - do what you need to do?
I know very little about the countries these immigrants come from or how currency or laws work. The things I hear seem bad but as we all know FEAR > Logic and our own government loves to hand us horror stories to remind us how much we need THEM. Corrupt cops you have to pay off to get out of a ticket, guerrilla armies in Columbia, etc etc.
Really wish YAL had a historical faction of bloggers dedicated to some of this stuff. I mean - how many of us anarcho-capitalists have been told "Yah, great, move to Somalia and see how it feels if you think its so great..." - As always, so very curious :)
What ever happened to the will of the people?
The United States has a common culture, language, history etc... and the overwhelming majority want to preserve that. We the people, through our elected representatives, decide who we want to join our society, how many, where they come from, and what the process is. The reason everyone is so angry is the fact that illegal aliens are UNINVITED GUESTS, who have chosen to IGNORE the system that we the people have put in place.
You would not for one second allow a stranger to break down your front door and take up residence in your home, eating your food, forcing you to pay for education and health care etc... You would view this as a violation by an uninvited guest, who has ignored your objections to his presence. You would use force to remove this trespasser. It is no different with illegal immigration, our nation is our home. We the people are the owners who built this home and live in it.
What the author of this article is arguing is not for mere amnesty, but for the abolition of United States as a nation. No borders, no quotas, no limits, no anything, just open the doors and let anyone from anywhere in whether the will of the people asks for it or not. This will destroy the nation because very quickly the native populace will be outnumbered and overwhelmed by a flood of third world immigrants.
Just say NO to Amnesty!
If you wanna play w/ fools - the mob rules!
-And if Ronnie James Dio didn't sing it - it ain't F-ing true man!
The previous post seems disgustingly ethnocentric.
Immigration is a very sensitive issue and I understand the impulse for those who say that immigrants have no excuse to come over here illegally and should be penalized for doing so. The only problem with that argument though is that you are basing the influx of illegal immigrants purely within the context of the problems we have right and not the ideal situation. As Wes correctly noted, economic policies in the country essentially subsidize illegal immigration and gives them more and more incentive to come over here. Thus we do not have the "market dictation" of immigration, we have a disequilibrium which is being perpetuated by welfare programs and regulations on wages which only further encourage their movement as well as being hired by employers. As libertarians we should agree that people have the right to move where they would like to move, and if our economic policies were changed, I strongly feel immigration would come under control
well lets put it this way im a us citizen and my husband cam here with no pappers he has been here for 10 years and we have been married for 3 and we have a 1 year old son and immagration took him ,and he is my only support that i have is not only me that is suffering but my son is too and has not seen his dad in 1 month now is it really fair to send him back that he has a busniss and a son to take care of
I have to say that it is fair. There is a legal way to enter the United States, and the process is not that difficult. One does not have to be a citizen of the US to work here or live here, they just have to have the right documentation. I plan to teach in Japan for a few years, to do that I will have to have the right Visa, have a sponsor, and all sorts of lovely paperwork to do because Japan has such rigid immigration policies. If I were to enter undocumented and illegally, then I would deserve to get deported.
well if you know what my husband went throw u would change urb mins he was torterd beaten and manymore soo if you think you know you really have no idea what this people are going throw soo when ur in my shoes let me know
Wake up people! This is *not* immigration, this is colonization! Take your country back, stand up for sovereignty! Stand up for our laws!
"Today we have affirmed that Mexico now extends far beyond it's recognized borders..."- Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo speaking about Mexican [illegal] immigrants in the United States.
No offence or anything but most certainly this is not COLONIZATION. Period. Actually the US started from people migrating here [ I remember about Native Americans, don't worry ]. First were the Pilgrims, from England, who wanted religious freedom, and then everybody else came. Right now for the matter of fact we could have been called British, not Americans. Or French. Or Spanish. Those countries people colonized the land before it was called the United States of America. I am a legal immigrant (I became a citizen) , and seeing people of my nationality (which a lot of them are illegal) struggling to get ends tied up together is heartbreaking. A lot of them come here to get some money and send it to the struggling family back in their country because there is no jobs. Then, after few month before their Visa or whatever is over, they go back because they can't take being lonely. Where I live, it is like everybody is after you. Trust me, it's no fun to turn around and see people whispering behind your back.
i agree with you 10o% becouse my husband is the same thing and he has us to take care of and its all ways the good people they go after and its not like we take help from the state we work for what we have we dont take it from other people and americans say oo there takeing ur jobs noo were not they dont want to work sooo they urs that as an excuse not to get up off there layze a**es and work like we do
You are equating immigration to commerce. In a marketplace people buy what they want or what they need they don't have goods or services sneak into their cupboards.
The required amount of illegal immigration needed is none. If there was great demand for labor unemployment would not be at historic highs.
If the wages the employers are willing to pay are not acceptable to jobless in the community then the employer will be force to raise the wages in order to keep his doors open or he will go out of business. It is really that simple. Will it cause prices to go up? Possibly but that is were the market should be. Slavery is not the answer.
What is your alternative? Allow illegals into the country so they can be paid ridiculously low wages? Allow the preditors who own these businesses to underpay these immigrants and have them live in squalor?